Is there any way back?

[Elessar]

I have to give some back-story to myself here, for those who haven’t seen my intro post. Some of this, reading it back to myself now, sounds unbearably smug. It isn’t intended to be. It’s simply the truth and if anyone has answers that can help me, they’re here on this forum. I am totally clueless, as I’m only really at the start of my journey of knowing what I have and what I am.

I am now thirty four years old.

I was always dreadfully confused by schooling, which for me was throughout the 80's and into the first half of the 90's. In IQ tests or exams where multiple choice was the form, I did stunningly well. At thirteen or fourteen I took two IQ tests, one for Mensa, and one for an educational psychologist. One showed I was in the top 3% of all people in the UK, the other the top 4%.

Despite this, I crushingly failed the Eleven Plus and the Thirteen Plus, which are supposed to skim off only the top 25% of pupils into UK grammar schools. Not only should I have gone to grammar school, I should have been in the top eighth of pupils in grammar schools.

But, something was “wrong”. I could never write fast enough, getting horrible cramps in my left hand when I tried to. I could only write neatly when doing so at a snail’s pace. Naturally, no teacher could be bothered to do anything but rip stuff onto the blackboard at top speed, then pull it round leaving me far behind with large gaps in what I was supposed to be copying.

At 15, about six weeks into year 11 I ceased to go to school altogether. I suffered a serious emotional and mental breakdown as a result of stresses and bullying. As an adult, I now realise that sixty or seventy per cent of that was heaped on me by teachers themselves, who simply didn’t care enough about what I was going through to think I was anything other than stupid, careless, lazy or ignorant. If you didn’t have something physically obvious like Down’s Syndrome or a deformity, then you got nothing to help you. You were left to drown in an educational sewer.

I haven’t been back to any sort of schooling since, but I have had all this time a feeling that I have not been leading anything like the life I should have been.
When I was nineteen or twenty I was tested by Mensa again and the result this time was that they couldn’t measure my IQ from that one test, because you had to get some questions wrong to be measured accurately. I got them all right. Eventually it was estimated that I was around 177.

Now I don’t rate IQ, or Mensa itself that highly, to be perfectly honest. No-one recognises it at job interviews, no-one really cares. If you aren’t the right shape to fit the right holes and have the right state-certified letters after your name, no-one cares. (Pretty much like the teachers I knew.) But it has to mean SOMETHING. Doesn’t it?

Two or three years ago, I heard Daniel Radcliffe say he was “mildly dyspraxic”. I knew enough old Greek to translate that, and my curiosity was peaked. The difference between my apparent ability and my utter lack of achievement couldn’t be caused by simple laziness, because I was so often confused, so often sat at a task, almost literally sweating blood, trying to complete it.

I investigated this strange “dyspraxia” thing, and although I don’t have an official diagnosis, if I DON’T have it, it’s the mightiest of coincidences. One web site says that if you have thirty three to fifty per cent of the “below symptoms” you have a mild case and a more serious case if it’s fifty to sixty six per cent. I had seventy five per cent.

Somewhere inside of me there is a greater degree of ability than what I’m doing in life would suggest. But I’m clueless as to how to change it. According to one counsellor I know, I’d first need an examination by and a certification from an educational psychologist (which would cost a small fortune). That might allow me to get extra time in whatever exams, or the use of a keyboard. But even assuming I could afford that and it would come off without a hitch, as I said above I am now thirty four years old. I am also locked into a life that requires me to work full time to pay bills. How can I change my life in any meaningful way that would mean I’d have qualifications that would let me live the way I feel I need to? And bearing in mind that I’d be in my early forties before I finished getting them, is it even worth it? What’s the point of getting them, if you’re then twenty years older than most other people in the same position? What profession would look twice at you over a twenty one year old?

Is it just a case of accepting that a meaningful life has passed me by and I should shut up and accept what little I’ve got? Or is it possible to make a difference, even now?

Answers on a postcard folks. I hope there are some.

[AlleyCat]

You have certainly been badly let down by the education system. However, if you really want to do a degree it's not too late. As you haven't done a degree previously, you would at least be eligible for a Student Loan to cover your tuition fees, unlike those of us who already have degrees who would most likely have to pay the fees upfront if we wanted to go back into higher education. It's really difficult to advise on employment prospects, but if you really want to show what you can do academically perhaps it'd be worth it?! If you wanted to go into higher education (and possibly do an Access course or A levels to get in), I think it's extremely important that you do an assessment such as the WAIS. It wouldn't have to be with an educational psychologist, just with a psychologist who is recognised by the British Psychological Society. Click on this link to find a suitably qualified psychologist in your area:

http://www.bps.org.uk/bpslegacy/dcp

The assessment wouldn't come cheap, but it perhaps wouldn't be quite as expensive as you may have thought- someone elsewhere on this forum commented that one they had done very recently cost about £500. From what you've said, it seems as if you have been hugely disadvantaged by your writing speed, so it is vital that you are formally assessed to determine the level of support you need. Anyone who has an IQ as high as yours but is seriously disadvantaged by his/her ability to write at a reasonable speed may well be entitled to have someone to write for them in an exam. If you did the WAIS and it was discovered that you had particularly low scores in tasks which involve writing, the psychologist would then be able to at least state that you should have extra time in exams (it may well be stated how much extra time you should have, based on your score). Going by what you have said about how much you struggle with the physical act of writing, I would strongly advise against pursuing an academic course without you having first been assessed for dyspraxia.

[Elessar]

Thanks for the reply, AC .

The big question should of course be, is it worth it anyway? Naturally the act of obtaining a degree (without the stresses of struggling with an impairment) would be a protracted joy in itself, but full time study is not going to be an option, as far as I can see, which means the OU is probably the only route.

You seem pretty well informed on such things, so is my assessment of people putting "normal" educations at much younger ages ahead of mine wrong or right? For a law degree for example, if you were the recruiting manager for a legal firm, what would you look at: a forty year old with an OU course, or a twenty two year old who's just breezed through Caius with a first?

[AlleyCat]

I did a search for 'law as a mature student' using the Yahoo (UK only) search engine and one of the pages which came up was this:

http://www.thelawyer.com/profession-wel ... 42.article

As you can see, the man featured in the article had quite a bit of relevant experience, including having done related work on a voluntary basis. For a top job with a city law firm, the 20-odd year old with an Oxbridge first may indeed be looked upon more favourably, but perhaps it would be better for you to focus on areas of law which aren't so much to do with image and money. You could choose to specialise in disability, education, human rights or environmental law, which tend to be areas that people who want to make a difference go into. Of course I don't want to say do this or don't do that, but whatever you choose to do, some relevant experience (which you could get at the same time as studying for a degree) should help.

[Elessar]

I did a search for 'law as a mature student' using the Yahoo (UK only) search engine and one of the pages which came up was this:
As you can see, the man featured in the article had quite a bit of relevant experience, including having done related work on a voluntary basis.

Who or what could you actually go to to get this sort of career advice?

[AlleyCat]

I'm sorry, but I don't exactly know who you could go to for careers advice. Connexions was created to advise younger people, although it seems as if the Government has now done away with a lot of the Connexions advisers. Perhaps you could write to a law firm who specialise in the area of law you wish to go into and ask them what they think your chances might be? I don't know how useful this might be, I'm just trying to think of things you could do to get advice.

[Tom fod]

Careers advice re Law

Perhaps the Law society could help? Also maybe the local Citizens Advice. Solicitors etc often do voluntary work for this Org so they might be able to put you in touch with someone who would to talk to you about options.

Don't let others decide what you can or cannot achieve. Worth looking for organisations where you could gain some experience to work of a legal nature and go from there. Maybe even ask the Employment Service.

Being determined is great. All the best

Tom

[Elessar]

Careers advice re Law

Perhaps the Law society could help? Also maybe the local Citizens Advice. Solicitors etc often do voluntary work for this Org so they might be able to put you in touch with someone who would to talk to you about options.

To be honest, I was just pulling law out of my hat as a possible career that might be possible for anyone in my position. I don't have a burning ambition for that particular one.

Don't let others decide what you can or cannot achieve. Worth looking for organisations where you could gain some experience to work of a legal nature and go from there. Maybe even ask the Employment Service.

I feel very defined by what others think of me. Not just individuals, but organisations. We thrive and we prosper by how we fit into society, so if my opinion is falsely high, what's the use?


Thanks for replying Tom.

[Ruth]

Hi Elessar

this is my third attempt to reply - I keep abandoning my drafts as a hopeless mess!! basically just want to say there may not be a way back but there is DEFFINATELY a way forward!

i read your first post and winced and nodded along - sounds alot like me. I'mm 39 now (eek) and received my diagnosis at the grand old age of 31 (ish) The knowledge has made a HUGE difference.

Have you thought about doing a part time access course in the eveneings? - my friend did one over two years at thames valley University and received her diagnosis of dyslexia at the age of 32!! we thought she was dyscalcilissjg you know the one with numbers (WHY are they so hard to spell??) but it turns out the dyslexia got in the way of understanding the m,aths instructions.

The future is bright and I think employers really value a more mature point of view - in my experience especially from those who have battled with adversity - don't give up. As terry pratchett would say 'The world is your mollusc'

[Elessar]

Hi Elessar

this is my third attempt to reply - I keep abandoning my drafts as a hopeless mess!! basically just want to say there may not be a way back but there is DEFFINATELY a way forward!

i read your first post and winced and nodded along - sounds alot like me. I'mm 39 now (eek) and received my diagnosis at the grand old age of 31 (ish) The knowledge has made a HUGE difference.

Have you thought about doing a part time access course in the eveneings? - my friend did one over two years at thames valley University and received her diagnosis of dyslexia at the age of 32!! we thought she was dyscalcilissjg you know the one with numbers (WHY are they so hard to spell??) but it turns out the dyslexia got in the way of understanding the m,aths instructions.

The future is bright and I think employers really value a more mature point of view - in my experience especially from those who have battled with adversity - don't give up. As terry pratchett would say 'The world is your mollusc'

As Arthur Daley would say,

"Terrence, the world is your lobster!"

Dyscalculic, I think?

Unfortunately I am locked into shift work, so night work is not an option.

The main thing though, which so often seems forgotten in a world where a university education is becoming more and more a universal "rite of passage", rather than an elite place for elite education, is this.... Is it possible to use it to enhance your professional life this late in life?

Thanks for you replies everyone, by the way.

[Elessar]

Well, much to my surprise, it seems the NHS seem to both know something about dyspraxia these days and, even more importantly, care and have resources.

I went to the GP's with some trepidation and told him I thought I had dyspraxia, and wanted certification on it so I could get help in exams and go off in another direction in life.

Not only did he not give me that feared blank look, but he seemed quite knowledgeable.
Got me to balance barefoot on the floor on either leg, asked me what I was like at sports, asked me how I'd come to this conclusion, etc. Finally he told me he was referring me to a neurology clinic (which I'm slightly trepidacious about).

I wasn't expecting neurology, I was just expecting, if anything, some sort of educational psychologist to assess me. I don't want any sort of stigma to harm my current professional life, not least because the employer I have at the moment has been known to be ridiculously paranoid about mental health in the past.

Fingers crossed anyway. You never know, this may be the beginning of something long-awaited and much needed.

[AlleyCat]

I'm glad that your visit to see your GP was positive It's encouraging that he has referred you to see a neurologist, as this seems particularly appropriate given that dyspraxia is a neurological condition. When I was assessed as having dyspraxia, I saw an occupational psychologist, but this was only because my university told me that was who I had to see- it would have been interesting to have discovered what a neurologist might have had to say about me. I actually did see a GP, but it wasn't my own (and wasn't even someone who was based at the practice I was registered with)- I had to go and see him because the university had decided I needed to go and see a GP approved by them before I could return to complete my PGCE course. The only test I can remember doing was tracking a pen with my eyes, resulting in the GP concluding that I had 'a bit' of rotary nystagmus- I'm not even sure how bad any rotary nystagmus in my eyes actually is (or what it indicates), as I had a heavy cold at the time of my visit.

I think it's definitely worth being properly assessed for dyspraxia, as you will then have that information available to support you if you need to disclose. Where your current boss is concerned, I have to say that it doesn't seem too promising- although dyspraxia isn't a mental health condition (rather, it is a 'hidden disability'), a boss who has a previous record of being suspicious and intolerant of those who have mental illnesses is not likely to be supportive of someone who has some other kind of 'condition' which affects the brain. You of course are under no obligation to disclose, but tread very carefully if you do. Good luck with your assessment- it would be interesting if you could let us know what kind of tests the neurologist gets you to do

[Elessar]

Where your current boss is concerned, I have to say that it doesn't seem too promising- although dyspraxia isn't a mental health condition (rather, it is a 'hidden disability'), a boss who has a previous record of being suspicious and intolerant of those who have mental illnesses is not likely to be supportive of someone who has some other kind of 'condition' which affects the brain.

I've been doing my current occupation for six years, and comfortably above the minimum standard required if I allow myself a moment of big-headedness. Unfortunately it is the sort of job where you have to declare everything about yourself, although fortunately it is for an organisation so large that even my boss does not have discretion over whether I go or stay. Senior as he is to me, he's a small fish in a very big pond.

You of course are under no obligation to disclose, but tread very carefully if you do. Good luck with your assessment- it would be interesting if you could let us know what kind of tests the neurologist gets you to do

Luckily for me, I don't need any of the special considerations I'm seeking from the NHS to apply to my current job. I want out of it and away to something bigger and better. Of course these days one is grateful for having any means of making a living, seeing as how many people are on the scrap heap of life, following the meltdown of everything economical we know (with probably more to come).


And yep, I'll let y'all have a full report.

[Estella36]

Really interested to read all of this. I'm pretty much at the same place, being thirty something and just finding out about dyspraxia. Your post Elessar could have been written by me. Interested to know how you're doing.

[Elessar]

Really interested to read all of this. I'm pretty much at the same place, being thirty something and just finding out about dyspraxia. Your post Elessar could have been written by me. Interested to know how you're doing.

Hello Estella.

Glad you found it interesting, but I'm gutted another poor sod has found out they're possibly dyspraxic.

I know some people here and over at Dyspraxic Teens say they think being dyspraxic is great because apart from causing various difficulties, its formed their personality and given them "gifts". Personally however, I loathe it and can see no positive side to it.

Anyway, enough of me being a miserable bugger. Glad you made it here, Estella, I hope you find the answers you're looking for an a way forward in life.