Religion

[Osymandus]

Oh and its only Christianity that has the evangelicals or deliberately set out to convert others . Bad form really.

[agsiul]

It happened with Islam as well though depended on who was in charge and in what country and no doubt happened with other religions.

[Evasura]

@ Osymandus: that's what I meant (about your 2nd post). I thought Islam also has the duty of collection of adepts . And yes, I could call myself an agnostic, or whatever I want, as I am free from religious labels . I'd still rather call myself religiously atheist (religious in the Latin meaning of religio as it would be much easier to call myself agnostic and not take any compromise). By the way, Chritopher Hitchens does call himself an atheist (read introduction to God is not Great), and an antitheist (which is pretty much what i mean by religiously atheist)
Ah! yep, you're right! the Minotaur was born from Pasiphae and the bull that Poseidon sent for Minos! forgot most of the mytholody I learnt at uni

[Osymandus]

@Evasura . Oddly no as like Judaism its kept in the family . They do not force others to join (their haev been periods in history where it was convert or die but that was mainly crusades ) and like a few things was twisted form teh original idea

[Evasura]

I know they don'r force anyone! but they try to convince us!
and tell me about forcing! I'm Spanish, man, we had the lovely Inquisition (which on the other hand gave to Spain all the sosauges derived from pigs, which seem so popular nowadays) and our friend Franco!. maybe these are some of the reasons why i get so outraged when someone tries to get me to convert.
About jews, yeah, thnx 4 note. I was thinking more about catholicism and islam when i meant Jew/Chirstian tradition. is it just from Christian, then? any good books u can recommend about that? objective as poss (well, if poss), please?
note sure if post makes much sense ???

[Osymandus]

Actually the Wiki page isnt bad . WEll Spain did have the Moor's for many centuries (from about 12Th i think ) so you lucky swines . Islam it self doesn't convert or should not . The accept people of the book (i.e Jew's and Christians ) but will welcome those who want to convert. Pagans can be a bit funny (like the other 2 religions ) it just comes down to how liberal they are .
Catholicism is just another name for a variation of Christianity (it was taken by the Holy Roman Empire after the reformation , so people knew the difference , Catholic just means universal it isn't a specific Christian term)
Judaism then Christianity then Islam is the progression for the Abraham religions. And yes teh pretching and conversion is just from Christianity (as they came to believe that they must save peopels souls etc)

Oddly In Judasim and Islam unborn peoples went straight to heaven in early Christianity they didnt .... tsk

[ThePlacebo]

Personally, I find atheists are extremely aggressive, more so than religious people I know. When it comes to the Catholic church, we generally only evangalise when people ask us questions. The atheists I know talk about their views a lot more and (perhaps strangely) feel the need to justify themselves a lot more than the Christians I know. I feel pretty secure in my beliefs and never really feel compelled to argue with atheists. It makes them really angry.

Atheists love to point out all the terrible things that religion has done but fail to point out the good they do on a day to day basis. We had an earthquake here recently and the first people out on the streets cooking food for everyone were the Catholic Youth Team. I'm sure a lot of people who collected the food were atheists, they weren't complaining then. And in terms of international aid, Christians do a huge amount. Say what you will, but the majority of us are motivated by altruism when we live our lives. Mother Teresa was probably the greatest humanist there ever was, and she was religious.

The damage caused by atheists who are basically libertines goes pretty much unnoticed, because the media scrum never pays attention to those people. They are always lingering around for examples of Christian hypocrisy, yet when a Christian does something good it goes uncovered. That's the real hypocrisy.

Atheists really don't have much to complain about. They dominate the field of academia, which is really all that matters when it comes to power. They "evangalise" as much as Christians do, but they can do it without having the finger pointed at them because they do it in the name of "science". And if you've read Gulliver's Travels, you'll know that science isn't so flash hot anyway.

Oh, and as far as Islam goes, they had a convert or die policy during all their early conquests, they're as guilty as any religion when it comes to irresponsible proselytism.

[Osymandus]

Actually it was no worse then teh famous "kill them all and god shall know is own " from the first Christian crusade And Saladin was far more humain then any Pope or Christian leader (but the Ottermans didnt help much )

I would very much disagree about Mother Terresa and point you towards Christopher hitches books regarding how she lead her life and what she did . She wasn't quite the living saint. And while teh likes of Richard Dawrkins have gone a little over board , the social control and manipulation of many established churches /religions through history and nothing in comparison (and most athetsist want you to make your own mind up anyway ). Also as Dawrkins found to his dismay many of teh top academics are also of a relgioues persuasion .

Jonathan Swift wrote Gulliver's travels as a social satire ... not an attack on science itself (plus it's about 250 years old)

[ThePlacebo]

This social control and manipulation you are talking about simply doesn't exist. Most countries in the Western world exercise a freedom to practice or (not practice) any religion. Sure, the church has a sphere of influence, but none as great as secular organisations such as the UN or EU. Using words like "control" and "manipulation" shows paranoia on the atheists part; I think you need to take a good hard study of the autonomy of most people today. You are suggesting we are basically mindless sheep who can be manipulated at will; most reasonable people can make up their own mind. Though atheists wouldn't like to think that, that's why they ran that stupid bus campaign.

[Evasura]

@ Osymandus: yes, we had Islam, Jews and Christians living in relative good peace until the Catholic kings in the 15th century (Isabelle and Ferdinard) decided that everyone had to be catholic, leave the country or die (I guess that at least they assured them salvation by killing them? ). That's when chorizo and all that became so popular: it was the way to check if someone was a jew or a muslim because they wouln't eat it . In Toledo, the old capital city of Spain, there is a cathedral, next to a synagogue and a mosque. Amazing to see!
I'll take a look at the Wikipedia info, thanx.
@Placebo: I'm amazed that you know all the atheists in the world and you know what we all think!

[ThePlacebo]

I make no such claim, I was simply pointing out trends in typical atheist behavior that I have observed over the years.

[Osymandus]

This social control and manipulation you are talking about simply doesn't exist. Most countries in the Western world exercise a freedom to practice or (not practice) any religion. Sure, the church has a sphere of influence, but none as great as secular organisations such as the UN or EU. Using words like "control" and "manipulation" shows paranoia on the atheists part; I think you need to take a good hard study of the autonomy of most people today. You are suggesting we are basically mindless sheep who can be manipulated at will; most reasonable people can make up their own mind. Though atheists wouldn't like to think that, that's why they ran that stupid bus campaign.

Im suggesting nothing of the sort (though the Marketing industry spends more then most GDP's of small countries however that's a different matter ). Ignorance of a fact , is not an indictment of an external control . It can simply be ignorance or apathy . I'm afraid to suggest it doesn't happen to a degree is also rather naive on your part.

I feel your portraying yourself as a put upon Christian , which is not the case , the wider availabilities of sources contradictory to doctrine of many religions (and lets be fair here the Catholic church ran most of Europe for around 800 years , sorry but things change) allow more people to make up their minds , while I don;t agree with the more fundamentalist of any part of society (Dawkins has calmed down but the God delusion is still a pile of crap IMHO) if it makes people question then all the better .

[Osymandus]

I make no such claim, I was simply pointing out trends in typical atheist behavior that I have observed over the years.

Atypical of anecdotal behaviour of a small portion of the atheist/agnostic population.
I.e some people who may or may not be dicks about what they believe in

[Osymandus]

@ Osymandus: yes, we had Islam, Jews and Christians living in relative good peace until the Catholic kings in the 15th century (Isabelle and Ferdinard) decided that everyone had to be catholic, leave the country or die (I guess that at least they assured them salvation by killing them? ). That's when chorizo and all that became so popular: it was the way to check if someone was a jew or a muslim because they wouln't eat it . In Toledo, the old capital city of Spain, there is a cathedral, next to a synagogue and a mosque. Amazing to see!
I'll take a look at the Wikipedia info, thanx.
@Placebo: I'm amazed that you know all the atheists in the world and you know what we all think!

So so true . The Holy Roman Empire cuased a good many of teh root issues . Damn you Genghis Khan why did you not crush them when you had the chance

Fact : Mongols held Jerusliam for about 3 day's in 1090's , they got bored and left it (Source Dungeon Fire and Sword)

[ThePlacebo]

What the hell is a "put upon Christian"? I'm not portraying myself as anything, this isn't the playground. This is where real people discuss real issues without hiding behind stupid facades and playacting, at least that's what I hope it is.

I'm not naive, I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt. You'll genereally get further that way.