Dyspraxic Adults

The main obstacle is the use of force lost control of his personal campaign organ. This makes the affected person indulging in conversation with someone else's expression, then, extremely difficult. From the end of this verbal dyspraxia in school, sometimes in their homes have been neglected in most children.

I'm recently self-diagnosed as Dyspraxic. I managed to graduate in '97 at the top of my year with a First in English, but essay writing in particular was a very great struggle. I'm not in what you'd call "graduate" employment and I think that's probably due to the low self-esteem (and lack of career direction?) that are associated with dyspraxia - I always thought I was too stupid to do something academic, despite my grades, and I could see an escalation of my difficulties if I went further in education. I am in full-time work (since 2000) that I love, however!

Despite what some have said here about dyspraxia not holding you back, I've seen a survey somewhere on the net that suggests that graduates with dyspraxia are far less likely than NTs to be in "graduate" employment (regardless of current difficulties for ALL graduates).

Survey filled in, btw.

Can you provide a link for the article on graduates with dyspraxia ?

Elizabeth wrote:Despite what some have said here about dyspraxia not holding you back, I've seen a survey somewhere on the net that suggests that graduates with dyspraxia are far less likely than NTs to be in "graduate" employment (regardless of current difficulties for ALL graduates).

Even if it can be found the bigger question must be asked why is university education even encouraged if this is the result? In my experience I don't think much of educational pysychologists (and what I call the associated "do gooding industry)" talking about being "university material" when they can be a joke both in terms of how much they really know and understand and about REAL careers and employment. Graduate or otherwise.

"University material". What do they really F*****G know about it?

Hi
I can't remember where I originally saw the research mentioned, but, funnily enough, I think the researcher posted on this site before they began: [quote][/quote]

graduates with Neuro-Diversity questionarre

Postby catwoman » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:38 pm
Dear Members,
I am looking for graduates to send a questionarre on Neurodiverse graduates in the workplace.
If you live with dyspraxia, dyslexia, ADD, Aspergers Syndrome or Tourettes syndrome or suspect you have one of these conditions but have no formal diagnosis.
If you also have a first degree or are continuing at post grad level or have a post grad degree , Phd Etc.
Please contact me at janettaylor2000@hotmail.com to take part in my research. This could make adifference for future career guidance for ND graduates.
Janet Taylor (BA Hons)

http://www.daa.colsal.org.uk (Greater Manchester Dyspraxia Adult Action)
http://www.dyspraxia-training.co.uk (DIT Business site)

See: http://www.danda.org.uk/.../conclusion- ... uates-with...

Hi Elizabeth. Unfortunately the link doesn't work any more. Maybe the information has moved elsewhere?

http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/focus--ar ... kplace.php

The link works but there is no mention of dyspraxia. I think peope with High Functioning Autism/Aspergers as their main ND condition will have the worse prospects, the second most ND condition is dyspraxia, afterwards I do not know. The people often have a combination of ND conditions of differing severity.

I think 55% of all graduates work in career related graduate job but the figure for dyspraxics is around 15%-25% but I have no idea. I think the unemployment rate for dyspraxics may be 30%-50%+ but I cannot speculate.

Elizabeth wrote:Hi
I can't remember where I originally saw the research mentioned, but, funnily enough, I think the researcher posted on this site before they began graduates with Neuro-Diversity questionaire

The research is to be found in a thread under the "Work" forum dated 25th August 2006 .I hate to point this out folks but this is really old hat anyway. Why?

Because it has been discussed in another thread in the which Alladin himself was last to contribute to called "Do Gooding Educational Psychologists" that I started in the same "Work" forum dated February 16 2010.

In it I was castigating what I see as the falings/incompetence of educational psychologists slavering about ND people being "university material" if unemployment/underemployment is just the result for the reasons set out in that study.

Like you Elizabeth I Got a first class degree (In my case in Politics) and It was also a ridiculous effort to get essays done well and on time as well as a dissertation so the idea of postgrad just seemed ludicrous even if I was interested.

Because of that I would question what professional authorityone of these educational psychologists has to say that intelligent ND people should consider degrees unless it is going to make a MATERIAL difference to them in terms of careers and earning potential compared to neurotypical graduate peers.

(I dont think you talk about university education for such people unless all of that is going to be relatively easy.)

In the course of that discussion this study when I referred to it by myself was rubbished by the founder of this site (Pooky) and members such as Liz944 and Jackboy86 saying their ND issues hasn't got in their way to getting what they want in life and questioning the veracity of the study.

They also argued about the "size of the sample and source",whether it even quotes any sources and that it might need "peer reviewed" for its truthfulness and that there might need to be "more research, and have more work done before" it can be claimed (as Jackboy86 argues) that "this sort of thing happens in a court of law or before the Health Select Committee of the House of Commons - which are the only places that matter, really".

Well other than the fact that different people are affected by different ND issues of whatever kind to different degrees (so wont all have the exact same experiences/challenges) and it seems counterintuitive that there isn't probabably something in the issues discussed by the study (and has probably ALWAYS been ) it seems bizzare to me that those others cited here are so ready to be so dismissive of what it claims unless they are in principle supportive of research that meets such potential criticisms?

(And when its general trends and not just individual experiences/exceptions that is relevant and allowance for how individuals are fully affected in everyday life by their issue(s). Not just in a working environment. Otherwise I think it's a bit like saying that just because Richard Branson is a dyslexic billionaire its the fault of all other dyslexics that they aren't also billionaires or anywhere near that.)

Otherwise why have educational/neurological specalists came up with ideas like dyslexia,dyspraxia ADD et al if it dosent really matter? If everything ,particularly in the land of ND graduates, whatever the state of the economy(as if there haven't been recessions before and will be again: thats no excuse) is ALWAYS so hunkdory?

Why not just say its all made up, deny that any of this even exists and claim special pleading?

Something is either so (or suspected to be so) that deviates from what is thought to be an established norm because it IS SO or it is just nonsense to have such terms as neurodiverse and neurotypical.

If people like Pooky want to give their input here Elizabeth and Alladin then we can await to see what is said with great interest.

Hi Avarice. I found your post very interesting. As you yourself demonstrate, people with dyspraxia can be very capable of doing well in higher education. However, I think a lot more needs to be done to provide students with dyspraxia with appropriate support so that they can also find time for a social life and those 'oh so important' extra-curricular activities (such as being involved in University societies) which employers seem to want to see that students have been involved in. If I'd been diagnosed with dyspraxia when I was at school (and had appropriate support for it), I would not have ended up spending as much of my spare time doing school work and consequently missing out on a social life. At University, even the assignments I got good marks for seemed to take far too long to complete, with the consequence of me missing out on other things that University life had to offer.

Where employment is concerned, I think a large percentage of people with dyspraxia (and ND in general) are unemployed or underemployed. Of course there are people with dyspraxia who are particularly successful and who have achieved what they want career-wise, but I think it is important to consider other factors which seem to be particularly significant in helping people to get where they want. Although this might seem daft to some, I think a huge degree of whether you are successful or not can come down to how your physical appearance is perceived by others- the most important aspect of this seems to be the face (if anyone is interested, you can take part in research about this at http://www.perceptionlab.com ) I became interested in this because I have on many occasions received the impression that people have viewed me as being a 'push over' (a so-called friend told me that I would find it more difficult to control classes as a teacher because I didn't have a 'firm face.') I have always believed that those with quite beady eyes, which look like they're scrutinising something (such as my dad's cousin, who had a very successful teaching career), are more likely to be perceived as 'strong characters.' Anyhow, the relevance this has to people with dyspraxia is that once others have some kind of prejudice about you based on your appearance, I believe that they are then more likely to be looking for 'weaknesses' (which is obviously going to put someone with dyspraxia at a disadvantage, as he/she isn't magically going to be able to make those 'weaknesses' go away).

I also believe that the perception of the way someone speaks can have important consequences for how successful someone with dyspraxia is in employment. Some people with dyspraxia don't seem to have problems with speech, but many others do. The way someone's voice sounds is often viewed by others in the workplace as being reflective of someone's capabilities. I have had others claim that I have 'communication problems'- they rarely seem to want to expand on this (perhaps they are too embarrassed), but I have often wondered if they are referring to the way I speak, rather than to the language I use. In the past my speech could be quite hesitant and I still sometimes have problems with articulation- added to that, I have a regional accent, rather than one which might be perceived as being of a 'higher class.' To elaborate on the issue of voice and success in the workplace, a very good example is Daniel Radcliffe, who of course has dyspraxia. He doesn't seem to have any problems with his speech and is 'well-spoken', so this has enabled him to have a career as a successful actor (in fact, he may well be the wealthiest person with dyspraxia on the planet!).

Hi AlleyCat.

Firstly let me say that I find you own post very interesting for the issues it raises as well .Particularly concerning the issue of time management and for being able to get a 2:1 never mind a 1st or a pass degree and have a life for anything else with extra-curricular activities when many an ND person is an undergraduate.

For many ND people the time that gets put into academic work is done not out of some masochistic pleasure but that because of HOW our brains are wired or been impaired. There IS NO OTHER WAY and people like educational psychologists should already know that before suggesting university education for the ND.

Graduate employers are expecting people with a more neurotypical profile and because of graduate inflation the use of psychometric testing besides conventional interviews can also work against ND graduates however well their academic performance.

(Although detractors here of the mentioned research would appear to dispute this which, other than asking whose side are they on, overlooks that it also depends on the nature and extent of individual impairments regardless of how rigorous or not it or any future research is.

As far as saying anything about university” careers services” are concerned for the ND let’s not even go there!)

There otherwise almost seems to be an expectation as far as male undergraduates are concerned by REAL graduate employers that you are almost like James Bond as an undergraduate driving (assuming you can) to lectures, effortlessly getting a 1st while winning sporting events and being captain of everything prior to beginning a gilded career in the City or as a future Permanent Secretary in Whitehall.

If only HALF of that approximated to likely reality.

(And as far as the ND are concerned I do not count Dell Boy like jobs in sales and recruitment that are advertised for “graduates” on sites like Reed as REAL graduate jobs.)

Your other point about how people appear is also insightful as well. The old adage about the face fitting and as you have said elsewhere NT people can confuse caution and trepidation by the ND in the workplace with a lack of sufficient engagement and commitment. (Because for ND people it can feel more like they are going into a warzone instead of a workplace.) They can often actually be as you say more intelligent than them and instead they get side-lined to things that don’t play to their strengths because these “colleagues “can often be ignoramuses who do not know either who or what they are dealing with.

(Or are too obnoxious to want to know never mind care.)

There is also something in you observation about accents but I think it is more than that as if an ND person has been better supported and cultivated in the pre university years, been perhaps taught better systems of coping with /managing their issues and been instilled with a greater sense of self belief in themselves they are more likely to achieve any outcomes they wish. (Or up to a point.Depending on the nature and extent of the impairment(s).)

An ND Etonian who has been hot housed for Oxbridge and who speaks in a Southern English Received Pronunciation accent is probably going to have everything more their way than a neglected and incompetently supported ND person in a bog standard comprehensive. (This is certainly the charge to be levelled at my state school education as I didn’t go to university straight from school) Especially the further you are from London.

If you have a diagnostic report confirming your dyspraxia, get in touch with the University's Disabled Student's Advisor and you will be entitled to a disabled student's allowance. I was able to get a laptop, £1800 of assistive software. A £1000 ergonomic chair - with a 10 year guarantee. An ergonomic desk and ergonomic mouse. I did a course with the Open University - so they paid for the diagnostic report - I saw a specialist in London called Dr. Grant.

The knock on affect of this help is I have been able to get free adaptions made to my flat including a £5000 disabled shower. So all together I have had £15000 worth of assistance, based on the support I have had from the Open University. This included a disability mentor who helped me with organizing my assignments.

Therefore, my experiences have all been positive from Higher Education and I got a 2:1 degree in English, too.

I think word of mouth and anecdotal experience can often help those who are unsure of what is available to them.

I know that so far only been temporary work and Saturday work, but so far so good, my dyspraxia not held me in that direction. I also know that there are other people here who have gone to college and now works great.

The problem is that it is easy to think so when you have worked hard to do well, you're stressed and very aware that people are likely to judge you on your mistakes and failures, as it very conveniently detracts from their own perception of faults.

I agree everyone is affected in different ways and to different degrees. Also some are better at coping with others with different things. Most of the time if things seem to be going my way or are within the realms of it doesn't matter and it really is not my fault I can cope.