No Skills, No Benefits

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WTCCFan
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No Skills, No Benefits

Post by WTCCFan »

Recently Labour announced that people who want to claim JSA will have to sit a test in Maths, English and IT but if they fail they will be denied benefits (or so it appears to me). What is everyone's opinion on this? I think it will hit most people who have learning difficulties. People who want to work and can work who are honest won't see a penny if they have a learning difficulty. This is hardly fair.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25803006
Moot
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Moot »

Eurgh, Labour...

For me and my goddarn awful maths skills this is not a favourable decision in that regard. I can see that the idea makes some sense, but I just know job centre would be sh*tty about this like with other things and so make me feel bad and pressurised. Seriously, if I was made to take more maths tests I would still not improve much. My brain blanks out, I forget so quick, struggle to recall things which are not good ingredients for passable maths skills. Not just excuses, I really struggle with the basics of maths. The jobs I have attained I have got away with not having great skills. There can be some awkward moments, but for the main part, we have these great things called tills... :p

I'd say that the English part is important and fair to have decent ability in them. Not just to deal a bit with the immigration issue. Even if you're dyslexic you can still get a decent understanding of the skills needed. IT, well computer is used for a heck of a lot, so yes, sure, basic skills in that. Not too difficult to pick up the basics there. Maths isn't so simple. People should ideally be able to do the basics, I understand that, but people like me... just not so simple.
Hopefully not making too many moot points... heh... *ahem* :D
Tom fod
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Tom fod »

First of all it's only been proposed at a think tank so is not policy yet and I imagine it is quite likely to be shot down for many reasons.

However I can see how it would cause problems if it was implemented in the usual half arsed, ill thought out way as a one-fits-all solution. One would hope that were someone to fail there would be some heed paid to the reasons why they had failed.

Typically the Tories are saying education is crap because of the last Labour Government. To me they're all the same now! What needs to be in place is a level of discretion so that advisers could decide whether such a test is actually inappropriate for a certain claimant and/or whether that person is being set up for failure and as such could the policy would fall into the territory of being unintentionally discriminatory.

Smacks of a populist idea that might never be implemented. No harm in emailing Labour HQ to let your views be known though!
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Ferrus
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Ferrus »

I've always tried to get what education/help I can. When I was going to the Job Centre back in 2008/9 (nearly 5 years ago now 8-[ ) I managed to finagle my way onto a training course up in Durham for accountancy. Whilst - given the future trajectory of my career - a CCNA would have been appropriate, it still got me what I feel we with these issues need - tangible skills.
Jim
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Jim »

It's something that would certainly be rather controversial.

At the very least it would require a massive amount of research and debate to ensure that it doesn't unlawfully discriminate against any groups.
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Tim G
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Tim G »

I see both sides of the argument hear - on paper and politically yes it seams like a good idea but I really doubt it will go through. Many ideas get thought up in thies 'think tanks' and many don't make it through at all and I think this is one of those.
If it does seam more likely then I think there will be a real protest and anger over it espshly from those with dyslexia, dyspraxicia etc and from the dyslexic stand alone I think that will probably make them re consider.

I haven't heard anything about it in the news lately anyway and its probably more down to immigrants then anything else. - I.e. if your not a UK national then you need to take this test based on if you can understand English etc, I think that is fair enough.
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Peardrop
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Peardrop »

I think it could be a really good thing offer people the chance study English, Maths and ICT - especially if those people doing so were failed by the system the first time, due to not receiving the correct support.

The real issue is whether the courses will be tailored to support those who may need it. I also think it would be important that people who are attending the courses and are putting EFFORT in (even if they are not attaining a particularly high standard), should still receive Job Seekers while on the course.
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Willr0490
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Willr0490 »

I think it might be a good idea - because those skills are important to the jobs market.
moleyface1991
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by moleyface1991 »

If this is true then it is truly disgusting. I can't believe that we still have to have 'academic' achievement to suceed, that is complete (pardon my french) crap. I suffer with dyslexia and dyspraxia and I often found my best marks came from the 'doing' classes, ie ICT, DT etc, not from academic studies ie maths. I will say however that I did find myself feeling enormously pressured at school to be academic, I did have a string of 'good' grades at school and found myself fearing that it was just average, Ironically when I left school I became more interested academically and done sociology and psychology at college,. It became much more fluent in my understanding and I found new ways of dealing with my learning difficulties, maths was a massive stop sign for me, I still havent got past a D in maths despite getting Cs in 'little modules' and coursework based modules.
My feeling is that if you show enough effort, detirmination and can actually do a job Academic achievement shouldnt matter, I based my college life on wanting to be able to prove that I had brains,and despite getting a good grades I still havent be able to get a job, the reason for this I believe is down to the fact that I have no paid work expereince, meaning that the JC now needs to look into implementing a system that looks not on academic achievemnt but lifeskils or work skills courses, yeahh learning about history is great but what about learning the skill sets for manual jobs ie Plumbing or Hairdressing etc.
I am on JSA, very angry about it becuase it is over 2 years. If they want to improve my english, maths science whatever then yeah do it, BUT put more apprenticeships/training/work based learning at colleges/schools and then the skills will be ready for the companies out there/
Rant over lol

Chris
Tim G
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Tim G »

Allthough I can understand that skills such as maths and English are important it doesn't mean you can't get a job without them - yes it may not be top / high paid jobs but a job none the less and that is surely better then the job center
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Moot
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Moot »

God yeah, it's darn frustrating how academic achievement is still seen as so, so important. So if you're not bright like that you just feel thick for years after (at least I feel like that, that my poor grades were a huuuge failure for me).

Job Cnetre's just put me on a bloody 'work programme'. Arghgod.

But yeah, as I said, it is so important people can read and write. You don't have to be academic for that, at least!
Hopefully not making too many moot points... heh... *ahem* :D
moleyface1991
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by moleyface1991 »

Moot wrote:God yeah, it's darn frustrating how academic achievement is still seen as so, so important. So if you're not bright like that you just feel thick for years after (at least I feel like that, that my poor grades were a huuuge failure for me).

Job Cnetre's just put me on a bloody 'work programme'. Arghgod.

But yeah, as I said, it is so important people can read and write. You don't have to be academic for that, at least!

Mate. Work Programme - I go to tgb learning. 2 year contract just about to leave, and dont feel it has helped one bit.
screengreen
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by screengreen »

Actually I think it could potentially be a good thing, this being that you sit the test and if you fail you have to go on a course to improve your skills. However the devil will be in the detail.... do they just grab someone of the street and give them a few weeks training to teach or do they employ specialist teachers for people with learning difficulties... or to be economically more realistic perhaps the former then with support from ed pscychologists the latter.... apparently according to radio4 people who do well in maths are economically better off and happier. By the way Maths is taught very differently now to how it used to be taught more emphasis on understanding and visual learning and less on rote learning so given the opportunity some may be pleasantly surprised..... If brought in look at it as an opportunity !
Moot
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Re: No Skills, No Benefits

Post by Moot »

moleyface1991 wrote:
Moot wrote:God yeah, it's darn frustrating how academic achievement is still seen as so, so important. So if you're not bright like that you just feel thick for years after (at least I feel like that, that my poor grades were a huuuge failure for me).

Job Cnetre's just put me on a bloody 'work programme'. Arghgod.

But yeah, as I said, it is so important people can read and write. You don't have to be academic for that, at least!

Mate. Work Programme - I go to tgb learning. 2 year contract just about to leave, and dont feel it has helped one bit.
Oh great.....
Hopefully not making too many moot points... heh... *ahem* :D
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