Do Gooding Educational Psychologists

[Avarice]

Getting your ideal job!(Or any one that isn't dead end.) Unless you are given one by nepotism ,if your ND/dyspraxic there isn't usually the slightest chance of getting anything remotely touching over £15,0000.

Unless there is decisive intervention to prevent this.

(1) Why do educational do gooders such as educational psychologists encourage anyone who is ND to bother with degrees(which are not cheap) in anything if this is the result?

(2) What excuse do University careers services ( or careers services generally) have in not addressing this issue? (Refer you to know nothings in Job centres seems to be the SOB answer.)

(3) Why is a false prospectus created for such people if employers(graduate or otherwise) really think something akin to N***R as with a racist processing applications/interviewing a black person?

(Like Barrack Obama being interviewed for a job by Nick Griffin.)

Or if the selection, interview and probation process is slanted in a way that ND people cannot easily match ?(if at all)

Well unless its cleaning up s**t is it acceptable that such people whose intelligence (graduate or otherwise) can otherwise be as great,if not greater, than many other graduates and non graduates are allowed to lanquish by being out of work or underemployed?

Especially when their abilities in many instances tapped into in the right way can make them extremely productive and a key asset to organisations?

Recession,credit crunch!

Without something being effectively done about this (otherwise don't encourage such people to bother with university education in the first place) it is ALWAYS ******* DEPRESSION!!

An educational psychologist said to my parents that I was "university material".

Has getting a first class degree made any real difference to me materially and in terms of career advancement ? Of course it hasn't for the reasons set out above. A bit like saying to a paraplegic that they are sprint runner material.

Their testing dosen't cut it out in the field in terms of how the world actually works.

"He's university material". It should have been asked: Would it get him into something like the higher civil service or management consultancy; anything that WOULD pay significantly more than the minimum wage and add a premium to future possible earnings?

If the answer to that was either no or they don't know then surely the curt reply should have been:

"I'm sorry, I thought you really knew what you were talking about!

[Pooky]

Sorry but anyone one who is dyspraxic is capable of being sucessful in their respective career choices. Myself and Dan (the other admin) are testament to this.

Whilst a degree isn't for everything I have to say I wouldn't be where I am today without it.

[Avarice]

Well dyspraxia is a catch all term like dyslexia and discalculia which can actually attempt to simplify something that is much more complicated and varies in degree from person to person.

All I can say is see the following link that Proves that in the main you are plain wrong:


http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/danda-foc ... kplace.php

[Liz944]

What type of job you get is down what you percieve you can achieve as an individual... you have to make the decision about the type of job you apply for ... I am lucky I got a job straight from finishing uni (on my second degree) and its well paid...

There are people out in the real world who have not done degrees and have made small fortunes for themselves and have other issues not necessarily related to dyspraxia.

When the country is an recession the job market gets tough and you have to fight for a job and you will get knock backs but you have to keep trying...

[Jackyboy86]

I've not got it easy - and I used to be a broker.
The fact that i'm good with maths and got ADHD makes an excellent broker.
I 'retired' from broking shortly before Lehrmann collapsed - aged 21 - and earning a lot more than your quoted figure.

Since then, i've got a masters in politics, and I run my own political campaigning company.
I appear to be a 'leader in my field'.
Just because I can't stack shelves in a supermarket without breaking half the stock, or work in a call centre because my attention drifts in the boring, plain routine - doesn't mean I can't be successful.
Finding work at the moment is hard. SERIOUSLY hard. Dyspraxia makes that harder, and I get really frustrated by it, but it doesn't stop me. It just makes me more determined.

[Pooky]

All I can say is see the following link that Proves that in the main you are plain wrong:


http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/danda-foc ... kplace.php

That article does not quote the sampled source or size so I would take it with a pinch of salt.

You can achieve what you want if you set your mind to it. Yes dyspraxia can make it harder, and in the current economic climate it is that much harder. However if you truly want something you will succeed.

[Avarice]

That article does not quote the sampled source or size so I would take it with a pinch of salt".

I refer you to the following Pooky:

"Dear all, I have handed in my dissertation

Here is my conclusion. Which is hardly surprising to anyone on this list.

The hypothesis of this dissertation was to establish whether graduates with ND experience higher levels of unemployment or occupy lower paid jobs relative to their level of ability compared with NT graduates. This survey suggests that they do.

While some ND graduates had ordinary reasons such as pregnancy or short term contracts for leaving their first job, there is conclusive qualitative evidence to suggest that graduates with ND are not as successful as NT graduates. Issues which would not affect NT graduates but are unique to ND graduates include being sacked from their jobs or bullied due to lack of organisation. Awareness training of ND in the university careers service, job centres, for employers and the adaptation of ND-friendly job descriptions and ‘easy excellence ability’ was not covered by the DDA 1995 Part 2. 38 % of the participants had employment levels well below their ability and qualifications with their first job after leaving university. Lack of diagnosis until late adulthood was a key issue in affecting the ND graduate’s career prospects, as was lack of support in attaining independent living skills.

Although some ND graduates in the survey were not in their first job after leaving university, 38% of the sample were on an income less than £6000 or else unemployed and 70% of the sample were earning less than £15,000, well below expected graduate starting salary, even when regional variations and salary variations according to occupation are taken into consideration. Disablisim was the main discriminatory issues which could have affected the participants’ career prospects.

Therefore graduates with ND experience higher levels of unemployment or occupy lower paid jobs relative to their level of ability and qualifications than NT graduates. "


Who's website is that from Pooky?

Yours!

Dated in the forum 25 August 2006 by Catwoman. She's unreliable as well I suppose?

It is saying exactly the same thing as the link I referred you to. God its verbatim from somone who has contributed to and may still visit this site. You say it should be "taken with a pinch of salt" and she says :"Here is my conclusion. Which is hardly surprising to anyone on this list".Forgive my incredulity at your dismisiveness. I thought you would actually agree with a lot of it,because you didn't get the points I'm making from me first.
I was beaten to it.

Although the title of my thread: "Do Gooding Educational Psychlogists" might have affected interpretation of the points being made.

It's just how I retospectively see it.

Everything is also relative Jackyboy86. The dyspraxic actor Daniel Radcliffe is a multi-millionare through the Harry Potter movies. We are talking about generalities rather than exceptions to the rule.


My thing is a problem with visual motor response and working memory(A GP once said there might be a mild dyspraxia ;didn't even know what the word was or even meant until I heard that) which can also affect things like spatial awareness for ball games or learning to drive which it is taken for granted most people won't have a problem with.

Working in an environment in which I don't feel in sufficient control can be hell. Like being in a swimming pool lane in which everyone else is going too fast for you.

As I said these things can affect different people to diffrent degrees and sometimes being determined is not enough and some people with these sort of things do need more of a road map to get to places others supposedly want them to get to as well.

Family background (I think fee paying schools can have more of a positive influnce than the state sector) can also make a difference as well; and not every dyslexic,for example,is going to be the next Richard Branson.

[Pooky]

I do know Janet came on to the website to do some research.

However, I stand by what I say the article does not quote the sample size or source.

[Jackyboy86]

Equally, when was the survery taken?
At the moment, a 38% new graduate unemployment level would not be uncommon in today's economic climate.
A starting salary difference may be down to a different charisteristic - it may be a trait of ND that people are more likely not to haggle, or take the first job they are offered and stay there for a long time.
While these things would need addressing in the care of someone with ND - they themselves are not down to disability discrimination.
Now, I'm not saying that the employment market isn't discriminatory - institutionally so - but I would suggest that the study would need to be peer-reviewed before claiming 'fact'.
We need more information, more research, more work to be done before we can claim that sort of thing in a court of law or before the Health Select Committee of the House of Commons - which are the only places that matter, really.

[Daniel]

The original post clearly comes from a lot of frustration, and I can entirely understand why. I am - at last - in a career that I want to be in, if not quite at the level I'd like. However it's taken no amount of trial and error in jobs that's didn't nearly stretch me enough to get there.

Looking back, the difficulties have been around identifying suitable roles that play to my strengths without demanding too much of my weaknesses, and the selection process, the interview stage of which I've always found to be the sticking point.

I do, however, think that there are jobs that better suit ND folk. The difficulty is finding good guidance about them and working out which might best suit your own strengths and weaknesses. My experience is that certain companies / organisations do provide far better support and accommodation for particular needs than others. The problem I found was that I often ended up in smaller private companies that had neither the resources nor generally the inclination for this.

My point, I suppose, is that NDs can get into decent jobs and that it doesn't need to be the exception to the rule. However work needs to be done (by whom I'm unsure) to make the process of getting there a lot more straight-forward than it is at present and not so beset with failures, knock-backs and altogether unsuited jobs on the way.

[Avarice]

Looking back, the difficulties have been around identifying suitable roles that play to my strengths without demanding too much of my weaknesses, and the selection process, the interview stage of which I've always found to be the sticking point.

I do, however, think that there are jobs that better suit ND folk. The difficulty is finding good guidance about them and working out which might best suit your own strengths and weaknesses.

My point, I suppose, is that NDs can get into decent jobs and that it doesn't need to be the exception to the rule. However work needs to be done (by whom I'm unsure) to make the process of getting there a lot more straight-forward than it is at present and not so beset with failures, knock-backs and altogether unsuited jobs on the way


Jackyboy86 wrote :

Now, I'm not saying that the employment market isn't discriminatory - institutionally so - but I would suggest that the study would need to be peer-reviewed before claiming 'fact'.
We need more information, more research, more work to be done before we can claim that sort of thing in a court of law or before the Health Select Committee of the House of Commons - which are the only places that matter, really.

Sounds like there is actually a lot of consensus here!

My main point is the more pronounced the ND issues the more careful thought there needs to be re sensible educational and career options as the altenative seems to be unemployment or underemployment.

I thought after all that the whole point of ND people having a better levels of qualification is because it is supposed to, as has been said, better tap into their strengths over their weaknesses and give them a sounder base to build on.

I maintain, the more pronounced the ND issue, the more support and signposting is required as whatever planet educational psychologists telling such people they are "university material" live on it is not earth as far as the real world of recruitment (for good jobs) is concerned.

[zanderman1980]

Hi all im new here but i guess ide like to say hi and throw my hat into the ring , In some ways i can see where the person that wrote this comes from.. i myself had quiet a differant experiance with an educational psychologist when i was a kid, in his eyes i was so stupid i wasnt able to make my body do what i wanted it to, or faking what i had to seek attention, little did he know i later went on to work for st andrews univesity. The one thing i have go to say is I myself make more money than what was quoted by the writer but i have to say i have never disclosed the fact that i am dyspraxic as i was told by an ocupational therapist that in the workplace i would be discriminated against for havving it and on the rare occasions i have mentioned i have it and when people see that whole off what dyspraxia can be and not the problems i suffer from they freak out.... but try to tell them not every dyspraxic suffers from all these symptoms at anyone time your attempting to cover up what is there.. i certianly find it an advantage not to mention it and when people notice some off my quirks i just say im a little clumsy and that creates the the feeling off issolation because i feel im not being honest with them and ave this dark secret that i am trying to hide. Some times i feel it is a prison sentance and the body is my cell, yet other times i can think so quickly and see my way throuhg the problems that otehrs fail to say... there is a yin and a yang in dyspraxia and i belive in life its just trying to achive the ballance.. im not there yet but im getting there

alex

[ALADDIN]

I think being ND makes the situation much harder.

Large companies will have assessment centres and psychometric tests which discriminate against ND people.

Small companies expect a person to multi task which means that a person who is ND is much more likely to have to overcome their condition.

aspergers 15% employment full time, 6% part time

aspergers graduates 20% - 25% full time, most people with AS are not using their qualifications,

Prospects tend to place people in low paid, ,low skilled jobs, they can only really work well if a person is placed in London. A few of their jobs are high paid, highly skilled.

The situation is worse outside London. If a person has AS and dyspraxia then Prospects fails these people.

I have determination to succeed.