Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

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JamesAnthony91
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Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

Postby JamesAnthony91 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:53 pm

I found out that in America, there's a trend for parents to use scaremongering/stereotypes, to encourage other parents to sue their teenage children, so that their children will not have full adult rights when they reach the age of 18. I mean, I saw a mother of someone with PDD-NOS(a mild form of autism like aspergers, at least before it got wrapped in the same autistic spectrum disorder label) saying that they could be at risk of just handing money over to people who ask... It seems disturbingly condescending. I've seen that there's people with aspergers who are CEOs and Professors and who have spouses and children...so it seems off that something as mild as that can be used to take away either financial, or indeed, most adult rights from a person. I know as a fact, that if someone with an autism spectrum disorder messes up as a young man or woman, like losing all their money gambling at a casino or drinking on a wild night out, that can be used to declare them incompetent...BUT, if someone without the label does the same thing, it's called a folly of youth. Not only that, but autism is used in courts of law to get away with crimes do to "incapacity." I...just help me out here. Doesn't this mean that a person with a disability like autism spectrum disorder can never have the chance to loosen up and enjoy life and make mistakes, while people also judge those with autism as being too uptight and not being able to let loose and enjoy themselves? This is like telling a person to stand up, then backhanding them, menacingly telling them to not dare stand up again. Not only that, but, if a person is competent enough to lead a business or perform any number of professional jobs...why on Earth would that person be declared incompetent in a court of law, as a kind of insanity plea? I...am surrounded by idiots, aren't I? Does anybody see the...gaps in logic? I...just...it defies all logic. To drive the point home, check this out. http://www.autismsocietypgh.org/blog/th ... rdianship/ In this "case for guardianship", it's advocated to try taking rights away from someone even if they're currently independent at University. There's condescension saying the student could go off on a meltdown, use threatening language, get arrested, and then cry saying "I want to go back to University!" If this is not fearmongering, and condescension of the most insidious variety, then tell me what is, because I am rather disgusted.
Last edited by Tom fod on Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Expletive removed

Tom fod
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Re: Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

Postby Tom fod » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:03 am

This is a thorny topic and I don't know all that much about the subject. I agree with you that the site you link to advocates 'extreme' measures and plays on fears citing the very worst case scenarios! It would be interesting to know what the figures are in respect how many people with various disabilities/differences end up on the wrong side of our penal systems. You'd hope that the courts/judicial systems do right by people and see sense but there's no doubt there are cases where there are clear miscarriages of justice.

I think that instead of restricting people, more effort and resource needs to be out into understanding and supporting people in achieving as much independence as possible but also ensuring a safety net. I think there ought to be stiffer penalties for people who deliberately exploit and/or prey upon those who are unfortunately not as able to be 'worldly wise' for whatever reason. How such laws should be worded and applied is the complicated part. It does seem to come down to who can get/afford the best lawyer to argue an interpretation of various applicable legislation as a 'best fit'.

I can understand parents wanting someone to be there to watch out for their sons/daughters but this does seem rather like using a sledgehammer to crack the wrong nut.
Tom
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Re: Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

Postby Jim » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:07 am

I think it all comes down to the mental capacity of the individual.

If that person has a history of putting themselves (and/or others at risk) then there is a argument for forcibly taking away some of their independence not only for their safety but for those of others.

This applies to all of society. Look at it this way if there was this person who has a history of suicide attempts and is shown to be currently 'unstable' would you feel comfortable knowing them to be in a environment where they could impulsively chuck themselves in front of a moving car/bus/train?

You can't really pin this down to a label. Everyone has differing levels of capacity whomever they are.

And there are people who are genuinely vulnerable due their own incapacity, however you shouldn't be able to restrict a person's liberties and independence simply on the basis of them having a diagnosis of something.

Millions of people have a diagnosis of something, be it a learning difficulty, mental or physical illness and the vast majority will cope adequately and fit into society perfectly well. So each individual has to be assessed on their own capacity.

You can't restrict a person's independence simply because you fear their autism might prevent them from coping or that they might be exploited by others but because there is evidence that they actually can't cope and are being exploited and this would continue to be the case without intervention.

Personal capacity isn't a fixed state either, people can improve and deteriorate. So assessment and any intervention has to be reviewed to see if it's appropriate.
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JamesAnthony91
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Re: Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

Postby JamesAnthony91 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:00 am

I think scaremongering, before anything to cause concern has happened, is a bit extreme myself. I don't think doing something stupid while young, like maybe even going through a stoner phase, should be enough to declare a person with a diagnosis as incompetent, but the fact is...that the label is all that is needed. Now, if someone does the SAME things, without a diagnosis, then it can be seen as normal and nobody would do anything. I think that as long as a person isn't intellectually retarded, they shouldn't have less rights. It never turns out right, and, something will go very wrong one day, that will shock people into supporting a liberation movement. Whether it's a race of people previously kept as slaves, or as homosexuals, or Jews, and nowadays also Muslims...treating a group of people as "less", just doesn't work out well.

The authority to even bring someone to court under threat of taking away their adult rights, is nothing less than a violation of their liberty, and an attack on liberty, based on a difference. That to me, is bigotry, a bigotry all too accepted in the modern world. It's odd, that Psychopaths are not only given more rights...they're also praised. I don't think the majority of the human population has the competence to make judgement calls like that, because of the latter fact about Psychopathy being literally praised, so I'd find it suspect. I also don't think Judges are great...Judges. A guy here in Ireland, got away with raping his girlfriend, yet here people are locked up for...not paying a tv license. I sometimes wonder if other people notice how silly humanity, and the systems in place are, or, if I am one of few sane men in an insane world. I am, on some level, amused by the farcical, and hypocritical, nature of how this species goes about things.

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Re: Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

Postby allesandro » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:23 am

I'm American and have never heard of this. What seems to be the norm is that a trust is established and overseen by an attorney. The individual is given an allowance depending on their needs and extra money in special circumstances.

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Re: Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

Postby Tom fod » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:13 am

Thank You for your input to inject reality and dispel fake news 8-)
Tom
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allesandro
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Re: Disability and forced guardianship/conservatorship

Postby allesandro » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:10 pm

Just to clarify: In the States before someone can be subject to forced guardianship they must go to mental health court. The individual in question is assigned an attorney and the burden of proof for incapacitation is on the state to prove that the person is so impaired that they cannot care for themselves. Only then can they be considered a ward of the state or another guardian. This is only in cases of severe impairment.


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