Neurological Impaired/dyspraxic graduate's time wasted
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Neurological Impaired/dyspraxic graduate's time wasted
I am now 42 and graduated as a "mature" graduate with a first class honours degree in Politics aged 33.
In the intervening period I have either not worked or been underemployed. I am currently doing freelance research which is really a pittance.
(Although it supposedly promises to pay more at some point if they like you enough. I do not have unlimited reserves of patience.)
I have a neurological impairment which has some dyspraxic like facets which means that if I have too much multi tasking, have too little time to do things in or have to remember too many things for my short term memory to handle there can be problems. I was given things like extra time in examinations as my handwriting in these sort of conditions is not the best either.
My state school education was criminal in it's incompetence and my parents paid for me to go through university when I entered it 11 years later than I otherwise would have.
(After seeing a neuropsychologist in the early 90's and completing an Open University course to get into conventional university)
I thought that when I was doing a degree, as I am otherwise supposed to have above average ability, that I was doing something to extricate myself from places and situations that I do not like by getting into things that would play to my strengths that are only open to people with any degree.
So I thought this should mean that It should be easier to get into graduate recruitment but apparently you are supposed to provide evidence in the application forms of experiences that my neurocomplexity makes a hurdle such as tempting or doing unpaid internships (that can be far away with no guarantee of a position at the end of it?) which I thought I was doing a degree to avoid in the first place because the more generalised and automaton like the work the less likely I am to function well at it.
It could be said of course that I could do a very unskilled job but when you consider that both my parents had good jobs and I should take after them ,who acheived this without having degrees, the only reason why to date I have not equalled or surpassed them is because I was MADE neurodiverse by suspected asphyxiation of my brain during a difficult Ceasarian birth and considering in a local area my experience of "contempoaries" in my school years made me conclude they were totally malevolent (I have made a point of being no where near them in over 20 years) I am suspucious from pre university experience of the coarse redneck mentality to be found in the bottom ladder of the job market that is obnoxious towards anybody and anything that they dont really understand. (Which isnt very much.)
I am placed in this situation jobwise because a supposed Doctor when I was being born coudn't as far as I am concerned really do theirs.
(Although it would, even allowing for the passage of time, be difficult to prove legally.)
As with university the higher up the jobmarket you go the better the class of people you (or should) meet and work with :especially of course neurodiverse people.
A neurotypical person of similar ability just seems to get there as of almost natural right without being treated to the idiocies of people who "work" in jobcentres that are like seeing first aid officers instead of a top hospital consultant in how much they know and can really comprehend of things like this.
(I know when I'm getting a bog standard service compared to from something or somebody that is really switched on.)
There are enlightened graduate employers but the infrequency of vaccancies and their not involving uprooting present problems.
( If this condition did not exist I would have went to somewhere like America aeons ago!)
In the meantime you are supposed to have fall back positions.
( If your not part of some old boy network.)
Well I don't see myself being able to do particularly well in a graduate sales jobs or as a recruitment consultant for which there are a large number of vaccancies and in the absence of having the skills and knowledge provided by more vocational degrees such as law/medicine I do not understand how finding even suitable stopgap positions prior to getting what I would consider to be a real job with all that can come with it (A house/flat/car) nothing less than farcical.
DO NOT encourage neurodiverse people to go through the higher education system if this is going to happen.
In the intervening period I have either not worked or been underemployed. I am currently doing freelance research which is really a pittance.
(Although it supposedly promises to pay more at some point if they like you enough. I do not have unlimited reserves of patience.)
I have a neurological impairment which has some dyspraxic like facets which means that if I have too much multi tasking, have too little time to do things in or have to remember too many things for my short term memory to handle there can be problems. I was given things like extra time in examinations as my handwriting in these sort of conditions is not the best either.
My state school education was criminal in it's incompetence and my parents paid for me to go through university when I entered it 11 years later than I otherwise would have.
(After seeing a neuropsychologist in the early 90's and completing an Open University course to get into conventional university)
I thought that when I was doing a degree, as I am otherwise supposed to have above average ability, that I was doing something to extricate myself from places and situations that I do not like by getting into things that would play to my strengths that are only open to people with any degree.
So I thought this should mean that It should be easier to get into graduate recruitment but apparently you are supposed to provide evidence in the application forms of experiences that my neurocomplexity makes a hurdle such as tempting or doing unpaid internships (that can be far away with no guarantee of a position at the end of it?) which I thought I was doing a degree to avoid in the first place because the more generalised and automaton like the work the less likely I am to function well at it.
It could be said of course that I could do a very unskilled job but when you consider that both my parents had good jobs and I should take after them ,who acheived this without having degrees, the only reason why to date I have not equalled or surpassed them is because I was MADE neurodiverse by suspected asphyxiation of my brain during a difficult Ceasarian birth and considering in a local area my experience of "contempoaries" in my school years made me conclude they were totally malevolent (I have made a point of being no where near them in over 20 years) I am suspucious from pre university experience of the coarse redneck mentality to be found in the bottom ladder of the job market that is obnoxious towards anybody and anything that they dont really understand. (Which isnt very much.)
I am placed in this situation jobwise because a supposed Doctor when I was being born coudn't as far as I am concerned really do theirs.
(Although it would, even allowing for the passage of time, be difficult to prove legally.)
As with university the higher up the jobmarket you go the better the class of people you (or should) meet and work with :especially of course neurodiverse people.
A neurotypical person of similar ability just seems to get there as of almost natural right without being treated to the idiocies of people who "work" in jobcentres that are like seeing first aid officers instead of a top hospital consultant in how much they know and can really comprehend of things like this.
(I know when I'm getting a bog standard service compared to from something or somebody that is really switched on.)
There are enlightened graduate employers but the infrequency of vaccancies and their not involving uprooting present problems.
( If this condition did not exist I would have went to somewhere like America aeons ago!)
In the meantime you are supposed to have fall back positions.
( If your not part of some old boy network.)
Well I don't see myself being able to do particularly well in a graduate sales jobs or as a recruitment consultant for which there are a large number of vaccancies and in the absence of having the skills and knowledge provided by more vocational degrees such as law/medicine I do not understand how finding even suitable stopgap positions prior to getting what I would consider to be a real job with all that can come with it (A house/flat/car) nothing less than farcical.
DO NOT encourage neurodiverse people to go through the higher education system if this is going to happen.
Welcome to the forum.
I don't think the false promises of higher education are by any means limited to the ND - there are no shortage of graduates who had high aspirations and found themselves sold short when it came to obtaining the sorts of jobs they had in mind. This said, as the membership of this forum goes to prove, we do have a heck of a hard time in the job market as a whole.
I'm job hunting at the moment, and while I am hoping for some positive responses to the many jobs I'm applying for it is by no means easy going. Even if I do manage an interview there's no guarantee of a job by any means. It's a slow, tedious and sometimes soul-crushing process. Previously the jobs I've obtained have been through agencies, but I feel my skills and interests are quite specific and that I would be best off hand-picking those vacancies which are suitable for myself.
You mention sales and recruitment - those two lines of work that appear ubiquitously whenever searching for 'graduate' jobs. It hardly inspires you after 3 years of academic toil does it? No doubt these will be suitable for a few - but for most they aren't the way to go and certainly not what they were looking for from their degree subject.
I don't have any specific advice to offer - my experience has been meandering to say the least but combined with a hopeful optimism that I'll find my footing in the job market in due course. However I wish you luck, and once again welcome to the forum.
Dan,
Forum Admin.
I don't think the false promises of higher education are by any means limited to the ND - there are no shortage of graduates who had high aspirations and found themselves sold short when it came to obtaining the sorts of jobs they had in mind. This said, as the membership of this forum goes to prove, we do have a heck of a hard time in the job market as a whole.
I'm job hunting at the moment, and while I am hoping for some positive responses to the many jobs I'm applying for it is by no means easy going. Even if I do manage an interview there's no guarantee of a job by any means. It's a slow, tedious and sometimes soul-crushing process. Previously the jobs I've obtained have been through agencies, but I feel my skills and interests are quite specific and that I would be best off hand-picking those vacancies which are suitable for myself.
You mention sales and recruitment - those two lines of work that appear ubiquitously whenever searching for 'graduate' jobs. It hardly inspires you after 3 years of academic toil does it? No doubt these will be suitable for a few - but for most they aren't the way to go and certainly not what they were looking for from their degree subject.
I don't have any specific advice to offer - my experience has been meandering to say the least but combined with a hopeful optimism that I'll find my footing in the job market in due course. However I wish you luck, and once again welcome to the forum.
Dan,
Forum Admin.
Thanks for the welcome
Thanks for the welcome folks.
Just some points for those of you out there that went to Uni but I think it can have relevance to anyone ND here who didn't go as well.
If you got special arrangements/dispensations for things like examinations
why isn't thought necessary because of your ND that "careers services" might give a little more input in career orientation that neurotypicals are accreited as not supposedly needing?
I know they cant wave a magic wand and give out dream jobs but it does strike me as odd that if your given support in your school/college/university career there isn't that much they have to say and offer other than refer you to something like a DEA in a "job centre."
This has always seemed to me like going back to square one when I however naively thought armed with a degree the possibilities were supposed to be far superior than without it.
Some of us already had experience of these people before university and while their not all bad their not necessarily in my experince particularly good either.
The last time I had any real dealings with one of them in 1989 it lead to being referred to an "occupational psychlogist" who came up with apocalyptic like conclusions which in an a "report" both a neurologist and a neuropsychlogist that saw it later thought was written by an idiot.
I later learned this individuals reputation for idiocy precedes him. The neuropsychologist said that I have gaps in how my brain works alongside above average ability so "nothing can be definitely ruled in or out".
It depends on the actual work setting which is why I am focusing on potential employers who say that they are commirted to "diversity":
helping put in place arrangements where appropriate that maximise your strengths and minimise your weaknesses so everyones happy.
By the way folks I said that I do freelance research work and there is something else I have suceeded in pulling off:
I have an interview with Pricewaterhouse Coopers for working in their Public Services divison when they have new vaccancies near my part of the world in 2008.
The interview is only the first stage of selection but they don't even give out interviews too readily.
So like going to some far flung never been to before location I'll just have to see what its like when I get there.
Cheers for now.
Adrian
Just some points for those of you out there that went to Uni but I think it can have relevance to anyone ND here who didn't go as well.
If you got special arrangements/dispensations for things like examinations
why isn't thought necessary because of your ND that "careers services" might give a little more input in career orientation that neurotypicals are accreited as not supposedly needing?
I know they cant wave a magic wand and give out dream jobs but it does strike me as odd that if your given support in your school/college/university career there isn't that much they have to say and offer other than refer you to something like a DEA in a "job centre."
This has always seemed to me like going back to square one when I however naively thought armed with a degree the possibilities were supposed to be far superior than without it.
Some of us already had experience of these people before university and while their not all bad their not necessarily in my experince particularly good either.
The last time I had any real dealings with one of them in 1989 it lead to being referred to an "occupational psychlogist" who came up with apocalyptic like conclusions which in an a "report" both a neurologist and a neuropsychlogist that saw it later thought was written by an idiot.
I later learned this individuals reputation for idiocy precedes him. The neuropsychologist said that I have gaps in how my brain works alongside above average ability so "nothing can be definitely ruled in or out".
It depends on the actual work setting which is why I am focusing on potential employers who say that they are commirted to "diversity":
helping put in place arrangements where appropriate that maximise your strengths and minimise your weaknesses so everyones happy.
By the way folks I said that I do freelance research work and there is something else I have suceeded in pulling off:
I have an interview with Pricewaterhouse Coopers for working in their Public Services divison when they have new vaccancies near my part of the world in 2008.
The interview is only the first stage of selection but they don't even give out interviews too readily.
So like going to some far flung never been to before location I'll just have to see what its like when I get there.
Cheers for now.
Adrian
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- Regular Poster
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- Location: Liverpool
Re: Neurological Impaired/dyspraxic graduate's time wasted
I think we dyspraxics are selling ourselves short....Yes I know as well as anyone how hard it can be at university and then in employment but its the sysytem that lets people like us down not we let down the system.
People with dyspraxia have lots of strengths and talents and we must use them to our advantage otherwise we will be seen as unemployable when in fact we could offer alot of input given the right support and opportunities to do so.
Don't give up we all get down including me and think just what hell am i doing this for?
Welcome to the forum
Pete
People with dyspraxia have lots of strengths and talents and we must use them to our advantage otherwise we will be seen as unemployable when in fact we could offer alot of input given the right support and opportunities to do so.
Don't give up we all get down including me and think just what hell am i doing this for?
Welcome to the forum
Pete
We the willing, led by the unknowning are attempting to the impossible for the ungrateful.
We have done so much with so little that we are now experts at doing anything with nothing.
We have done so much with so little that we are now experts at doing anything with nothing.
Re: Neurological Impaired/dyspraxic graduate's time wasted
Indeed but see my thread about "Do Gooding Educational Psychologists" who are supposed to be from" the system" and who despite not having any of these problems themselves say that despite these issues your above average intelligence and are "university material".peterkeegan wrote:I think we dyspraxics are selling ourselves short....Yes I know as well as anyone how hard it can be at university and then in employment but its the sysytem that lets people like us down not we let down the system.
Except when it comes to non mickey mouse high earning jobs your not.
Who or what are these fools in the do gooding industry if they know nothing about the world of real job recruitment?
This has stopped me doing things like join the navy as I probably otherwise would have done in my fathers footsteps, learn to easily drive or to be able to do a numerate degree that I would consider to be more highly employable with like engineering or sciences.
They should have these neurological afflictions somehow induced into them and see how far their ideas in practice take them.
Anyway i'm going out of the country soon to feel a bit more like a VIP on holiday again somewhere decent and warm to cleanse myself of all of this evil crap.
Maybe we should all try too enrich each other (literally) by creating something online like "Google" or "Facebook" online for our own benefit.
I see people like us becoming very rich as the ULTIMATE form of revenge.
Last edited by Avarice on Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Neurological Impaired/dyspraxic graduate's time wasted
We could get teh other sins to join in
Welcome to the board .
I do agree with a lot of what you have said , however having worked in teh so called real world fro 16 years , its more vapid , mono sighted and far more paranoid a creature then most academia (except if you work in academia then its another story ). Repetition breeds results which make profit (yes im simplifying it but lets be honest the people who induced teh last banking crisis were those taken on by so called master of their craft and induced to follow or exceed their forebears, to the mess they made .
The issues is with ND and NT people , we no longer take time and effort to find the correct talent into the correct vocation .
The Apollonian ideology prevails as dues the cult or youth it represents (as lovely as Apollo was he was hedonistic lush at the best of times like the rest of the Olympians , and i far rather trust his sister but i digress).
It's about changing paradigms ,if we cant beat them at their own game then we have the methods and abilities to change bend and warp it to our ends.
Who wants to be rich when you can change the world.
Welcome to the board .
I do agree with a lot of what you have said , however having worked in teh so called real world fro 16 years , its more vapid , mono sighted and far more paranoid a creature then most academia (except if you work in academia then its another story ). Repetition breeds results which make profit (yes im simplifying it but lets be honest the people who induced teh last banking crisis were those taken on by so called master of their craft and induced to follow or exceed their forebears, to the mess they made .
The issues is with ND and NT people , we no longer take time and effort to find the correct talent into the correct vocation .
The Apollonian ideology prevails as dues the cult or youth it represents (as lovely as Apollo was he was hedonistic lush at the best of times like the rest of the Olympians , and i far rather trust his sister but i digress).
It's about changing paradigms ,if we cant beat them at their own game then we have the methods and abilities to change bend and warp it to our ends.
Who wants to be rich when you can change the world.