Is this just ADHD or also dyspraxia

[sandwiches5000]

Hi. I have known I have had ADHD for a long time. I got re-assessed so I could update my documentation for an exam. Someone just told me about dyspraxia and now that I see my scores from this assessment, I think I could have it. Or it could just be the ADHD. The person assessing only talked about ADHD.

I scored in the 99th percentile on WAIS IV for the Verbal "Very Superior" and "Average" (55th percentile) in the Perceptual Reasoning. I was in the high average range for the pattern analysis but the block design and shape "part-whole conceptualization" in this subset brought down my score. The evaluator said that this was because of my visuospacial issues and that the verbal test represents my real level of intelligence. Could this just be ADHD/my own unique brain or due to dyspraxia? I was reading on here that people had discrepancies between the sections could be attributed to dyspraxia. Math has always been a lot harder for me than reading/languages, but since I started taking medication I have been able to score well enough (still lower than verbal but still above average) on the math section of standardized tests, by studying harder.

I also did horribly in rote memory audio recall stuff, attention tests, "low average" with visual recall, below expected level for copying time, and scored average/low average in working memory/processing speed on the WAIS, but that is normal for ADHD. What alerted me to the dyspraxia thing was because it says I had "severe impairment" in terms of my dominant hand's performance and scored "borderline deficient" for my nondominant hand on the "Grooved Pegboard Test." Is this normal for ADHD? I do have a hard time with fine motor stuff - keys, shoelaces, hold my pencil wrong. I'm pretty decent at typing on a keyboard but terrible with the iPhone. I am HORRIBLY clumsy and am a terrible dancer. I sometimes don't see things and have a hard time with understanding the parameters of my body in my environment. I also always drag my feet.

Any input appreciated, thanks!

*Oh, also I took almost the entire test on my medication.

[Tom fod]

Hi welcome to our community.

I'm guessing the person who assessed your level of ADHD is not an expert on dyspraxia/able to 'diagnose' it. and neither can we!

I do know, It's not uncommon for the people with dyspraxia to have ADHD and yes a number of things you've talked about are things that are common to people here too. I would suggest you speak to the your College/Uni and/or the people/organisation that carried out your ADHD assessment about what they suggest your next steps could/should be.

At the end of the end of the day we're all unique despite whatever labels we or the professionals who assess us choose to apply to us. How does one define what is normal or typical for anyone or anything?

Getting a formal diagnosis of dyspraxia as an adult seems to be a challenge and there is often very little support for those who learn that they are affected.

Sorry I have not been able to give you a straight or definite answer here. Do feel free to have a good look around here and ask more questions of the people organisations involved concerning your assessment scores and their interpretation and meaning.

[Ram]

It's always to compare WAIS scores. I also had a fairly high Verbal IQ of 129 (though not as high as yours). I did not do well on the block design either. I really had a bad shock when they told me that my processing speed was only a score of 76, which would put me at Forrest Gumpf levels in that area. The psychologist was sure that I did NOT have ADHD because of the way I concentrated during the test, but I still suspect that I may have it. She thought that I had dyspraxia and possible dyslexia.

The way you describe yourself does sound like someone with dyspraxia though of course I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis.

I did read somewhere that ADHD, Asperger's, Dyspraxia and Dyslexia are conditions which are cousins meaning that many individuals show symptoms of all four syndromes. I certainly feel that I do!

Anyway, as a previous poster has said, we don't all show exactly the same symptoms, so the labels are not always that precise anyway.

[sandwiches5000]

Thanks so much for the feedback. I believe this is it for me for the cognitive testing stuff, as I am in the US and it costs a fortune... Insurance will only cover half and so I have to pay over 1,000 USD out of pocket. I only did this because I am nervous about taking this big exam (it's the bar exam to practice law) without accommodations and the test committee people are very strict. I am graduating this semester.

I am going to ask the psychologist what she thinks, although it did seem that she attributed my visiospacial situation to attention issues. I explained to her how I have trouble with driving and parking between the lines and what not and she said that it was due to attention. I also just re-read my report and I saw that she said my IQ in the verbal actually may be even higher than this (~140) because she wasn't allowed to repeat questions and I zoned out on occasion. It said though that only like .6% of people with a verbal IQ as high as mine have such a low perceptual reasoning IQ (a score of a little over 100 I think).

Weird! I mostly just want to learn about the dyspraxia because I'm coming to terms with accepting how to better understand my brain so I can lead a happier and more fulfilling life. It would be interesting to find that my issues with math were not just from ADHD as I always thought they were. Interestingly, I still am able to score fairly well on math tests sometimes when I can learn the material on my own, my own way. I am still too slow though and get frustrated organizing math concepts in my head.

[sandwiches5000]

It's always to compare WAIS scores. I also had a fairly high Verbal IQ of 129 (though not as high as yours). I did not do well on the block design either. I really had a bad shock when they told me that my processing speed was only a score of 76, which would put me at Forrest Gumpf levels in that area. The psychologist was sure that I did NOT have ADHD because of the way I concentrated during the test, but I still suspect that I may have it. She thought that I had dyspraxia and possible dyslexia.

The way you describe yourself does sound like someone with dyspraxia though of course I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis.

I did read somewhere that ADHD, Asperger's, Dyspraxia and Dyslexia are conditions which are cousins meaning that many individuals show symptoms of all four syndromes. I certainly feel that I do!

Anyway, as a previous poster has said, we don't all show exactly the same symptoms, so the labels are not always that precise anyway.

Don't worry, my processing speed was not much higher, haha. What makes you think you have ADHD? I'm no expert obvi, but I have read that It is typical for a person with ADHD's processing speed/working memory to be lower than their scores on the other parts of the WAIS. The WAIS alone is not what is used to diagnose ADHD though. What other tests did you take? My processing speed/working memory were "average" on the WAIS (which was seen as significant given the high IQ score), but I FAILED other tests I was administered, like a test of attention where I had to hit "1" and not a "2" when it flashed on the screen. I got "Severely Impaired" for things like that and "Low Average" for some other things.

[Ram]

I have to admit that I'm totally outclassed by you in terms of IQ scores.

Anyway, I'll try to answer your two questions.

1. What makes you think you have ADHD?

I was always something of a space cadet and had terrible problems concentrating in the work place. When I first heard about ADD in the 1990s, I was certain that I had it. My doctor was sure that I didn't have this condition when I consulted him about the matter. He thought that I was just being a hypochondriac. I was never fully convinced by this doctor. When I first heard about Asperger's a few years later, I thought that a lot of the symptoms matched mine. Finally, I read about dyspraxia in about 2003 even more like me than the two aforementioned conditions. I finally got tested and was told that dyspraxia and dyslexia were likely. However, I am still sure that I have some Asperger's and ADD traits.

2. What other tests did you take?

I was given the WAIS III test. I'm sure that I didn't look like an ADD case to the psychologist because when something grabs me, I can work at it with an Asperger's like obsession. I was also asked to write a paragraph. Even though the content of the paragraph was fine, the psychologist thought that my script was somewhat immature. She believed this was a sign of Dyspraxia.

I vaguely remember reading that one of the criteria used to determine if a person has a high functioning learning difficulty such as Dyslexia, ADD or Dyspraxia is having a performance IQ (especially with respect to Processing Speed) that is significantly lower than the verbal IQ. This leads me to suspect that Dyslexia, ADD and Dyspraxia are different symptoms that have the same root cause, hence the overlap.

As you might already know, there has been a difference in the history of the recognition of various learning difficulties on our respective sides of the Atlantic. ADD was recognised and accepted far sooner in North America than it ever was in the UK. However, with respect to Dyspraxia, the opposite seems to be true.

[sandwiches5000]

That's definitely true about the acceptance of dyspraxia in the UK>US and I guess the converse for ADHD. I had never even heard about dyspraxia until Daniel Radcliffe had it, HAH. That's actually the only time I have ever heard about it, besides when I googled my weird IQ scores and found this forum.

I definitely think the syndromes you mentioned overlap.

I spoke to the test administrator and I was told it was just a difference and that the high IQ is my IQ for all intensive purposes and what not and that everything is fine because the low IQ part was still average for the general population. It doesn't really matter much to me because I'm not doing anything that involves math or fine motor skills for a living and I'm almost done with school. I normally do fine with my work with extended time + medication I receive due to the ADHD dx anyway, so it doesn't matter much to me on a practical level.

If you read about people with higher IQs and LDs/ADHD it is clear that it is a lot harder to get diagnosed w/things because your low is another person's average, so maybe you should see it from that perspective?

Alsoooo, I know that some IQ tests are not very appropriate for people with LDs and ADHD and what not because they are too tightly timed. WAIS IV is not like that so much so maybe you can consider trying that if you haven't already.

Out of curiosity, what makes you seek a diagnosis? Are you having a lot of trouble in your day-to-day life? Before I was diagnosed with ADHD (had symptoms since I was ~4 though), I came to a point where I was very miserable and frustrated with myself beyond belief. I felt like disappearing or running away (I was a teenager) because I could not control my life. It was horrible. I got terrible grades in most classes. I was failing at things constantly. It's not fun. Sometimes I still feel like that. It can be very hard to know that you are capable of doing more. :/

[sandwiches5000]

That's definitely true about the acceptance of dyspraxia in the UK>US and I guess the converse for ADHD. I had never even heard about dyspraxia until Daniel Radcliffe had it, HAH. That's actually the only time I have ever heard about it, besides when I googled my weird IQ scores and found this forum.

I definitely think the syndromes you mentioned overlap.

I spoke to the test administrator and I was told it was just a difference and that the high IQ is my IQ for all intensive purposes and what not and that everything is fine because the low IQ part was still average for the general population. It doesn't really matter much to me because I'm not doing anything that involves math or fine motor skills for a living and I'm almost done with school. I normally do fine with my work with extended time + medication I receive due to the ADHD dx anyway, so it doesn't matter much to me on a practical level.

If you read about people with higher IQs and LDs/ADHD it is clear that it is a lot harder to get diagnosed w/things because your low is another person's average, so maybe you should see it from that perspective?

Alsoooo, I know that some IQ tests are not very appropriate for people with LDs and ADHD and what not because they are too tightly timed. WAIS IV is not like that so much so maybe you can consider trying that if you haven't already.

Out of curiosity, what makes you seek a diagnosis? Are you having a lot of trouble in your day-to-day life? Before I was diagnosed with ADHD (had symptoms since I was ~4 though), I came to a point where I was very miserable and frustrated with myself beyond belief. I felt like disappearing or running away (I was a teenager) because I could not control my life. It was horrible. I got terrible grades in most classes. I was failing at things constantly. It's not fun. Sometimes I still feel like that. It can be very hard to know that you are capable of doing more. :/

[Ram]

In some ways it really doesn't sound as if you have anything at all because you are average in some areas and outstanding in others. I do, however, vaguely remember once reading that the classic symptoms of a learning difficulty are a performance IQ that is significantly lower than the verbal IQ.

You asked me what made me seek a diagnosis. I could write an extended essay on this, so I'll try to keep it as brief as possible.

I was failing to keep up to my expectations academically, socially, occupationally and athletically. By the age of 17, I was bottom of the class, a social pariah and the last person to ever be picked on a sport's team. As a result of this, my self-esteem was already crushed to say the least. A few years on down the line, I was performing very badly in jobs that I was overqualified for even though my qualifications were not that great in the first place. And this was not for want of trying. I realised that something was not right. Anyway, I have managed to make peace with myself after getting assessed a few years back (even if assessing learning difficulties is a less than precise business).

Anyway, good luck with your final exams.

[sandwiches5000]

Thanks. Good luck to you too. I do have something though. Haha. I have ADHD.