Your opinions please re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

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Ram
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Your opinions please re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby Ram » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:24 pm

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1478

Tom fod wrote: Grateful for opinions on how we moderate posts/respond to individuals and whether we consign whiole thread to Withdrawn Threads?




I appreciate that some partners of dyspraxics have had a difficult time with their relationships.

Nonetheless, the Dyspraxic Adults Forum is not a place for people without dyspraxia to gatecrash this site and make disparaging generalizations about people with our condition. Quite frankly, many of us take enough crap in our lives about our condition and do not want to hear it here.

Below are some quotes that I have seen on this thread. They imply that dyspraxics are unworthy of relationships. As a dyspraxic man, I find such a sentiment positively insulting.

Moreover, it is unacceptable for people without dyspraxia to come onto this site and talk about us dyspraxics as if they're not there. If these posters wish to vent about their problems with their (ex) dyspraxic partners, they can jolly well set up their own website.

A recent poster wrote: But this is not an illness, there is no cure... it is a disability, and therefore it is the partners who have to adapt their behaviour and accept a life of frustration, loneliness, anger and lack of emotional reward in order to survive a relationship with someone with dyspraxia.



Another poster from some time ago wrote:I get so ANGRY. I just cannot get my head around how they see things. .......It's just nice to be able to talk to someone who is brave enough to say that living with a dyspraxic is no fun. I DO NOT find their traits 'endearing'.


I'm not going to argue with these above posters' opinions. However, such statements about dyspraxics do not belong on this site!
Last edited by Tom fod on Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Administrators right to fiddle/organise

Ram
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Re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby Ram » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:06 pm

Hi Tom,

You have asked two interesting questions.

I'd be interested in your thoughts and opinions about how we (and I) should respond to such posts? Should we just hit delete or seek to respond to the authors to attempt to try to gently educate them?


I have no objections to most of the posts on this thread which are asking for constructive advice from dyspraxics on how to make the best of their relationship.

However, I do draw the line on people coming here to write off all dyspraxics in a totally destructive way and talking about us as if we are not even here. I think such individuals need a basic education in good manners before anyone attempts to educate them about dyspraxia.

It would be the height of bad manners for two non dyspraxics to be in the physical presence of dyspraxics and to talk negatively about dyspraxia within earshot of these dyspraxics. I really don't see how non-dyspraxics coming onto this forum and dissing dyspraxics is any different from that.

I think the best first step would be to warn such individuals that they have overstepped the boundaries of the site. One of the rules of the forum states,

Please avoid personally criticising others or posting material that will offend, insult or hurt others.


In my opinion, after being warned, such posters must apologise publicly on the forum if they are to continue as members. After they have made a public apology, it would be good to politely correct them on the matter.

On the other hand, if such a non-dyspraxic poster refuses to apologise, he/she clearly has no respect for our boundaries or for us dyspraxics as people. Such an individual's posts should be deleted and he/she should also be banned.

Anyway, I've said my piece. I would love to hear any other members' opinions on the matter.

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Re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby otis_b_flywheel » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:01 pm

I agree totally with Ram, and I think the approach he / she suggests - a kind of "three strikes and you're out" thing - is good as it gives possibly hostile non-dyspraxic posters the chance to find out why they're stepping out of line and thus to do something constructive about it.
Whilst we're on this subject, I know the intent is not hostile, but I'm also a little uncomfortable with parents of dyspraxic children posting on this forum. I know there aren't enough resources for children with dyspraxia, but there are even less for us adults, and although I've not been on this forum for all that long I'm starting to feel a little territorial about it. Is that unreasonable???
Regards
Tim
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Re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby Tom fod » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:56 pm

Ram and Tim

Thank you both for your thoughts

In this particular thread (which started back in 2010) there are some quite toxic opinions and some good responses from other members to counter them.

In respect posts by parents or other family members
Where I respond I endeavour to answer most questions pointing parents towards the Dyspraxia Foundation and other potential resources I can think of. Where appropriate, I've suggested that the parents (or other family member/partner) direct the prospective new member towards the Forum (and offered to remove the parent/family member's or partner's post(s) for them (to help avoid any unnecessary additional domestic friction). Maybe we need a sticky post at the top as a 'Read me first'

I'm wondering if maybe Moderators should proactively delete such posts after a given time period.
Feel free to report any posts of concern (recent or otherwise) to raise them to our attention.

Other fellow members Grateful also for your opinions on how we moderate posts/respond to individuals and whether we perhaps consign this whole thread (and maybe some others too) to the bin?

Thank You
Tom
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Ram
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Re: Your opinions please.

Postby Ram » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:04 pm

Grateful for opinions on how we moderate posts/respond to individuals and whether we consign whiole thread to Withdrawn Threads?


That's a good question,Tom. Obviously time efficiency is a major factor. I think the suggestions I made a few days ago might be too time-consuming

One possible suggestion is to do what a lot of newspapers do if a comment is deemed inappropriate. They remove the comment and then state "This comment was removed because it does not meet community guidelines." I think this is a quick way of dealing with the problem.

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Re: Your opinions please.

Postby Tom fod » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:50 am

Thanks for taking time to think about this. It's certainly a workable idea we could employ. Politely asking some people to retract/apologise isn't always going to work.

Fortunately moderating here is rarely difficult .Whilst what was said was inappropriate and frankly insulting I think the most recent poster in question was rather at the end of her tether and I guess we all know that feeling. I feel it's a credit to us that we responded quite reasonably in letting her know how we felt.
Last edited by Tom fod on Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Your opinions please.

Postby Jim » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:12 am

I think sometimes we have to pause for thought.

It's all too easy to feel instant offence.

For the post which catalysed this conversation, I honestly don't think it was intended to belittle or offend anyone here. It was sharing a bad personal experience with someone who just so happened to be dyspraxic.

It could perhaps be written more delicately, so that the reader does not take it as a generalisation upon themselves.

Knowing our tendencies to sometimes take things literally.. we ourselves ought to pause for thought and be sure we understand what was meant and not simply was said.

Everyone is a individual with different skill levels in language and communicating irrespective of any disability.

This is where Tom is good, for he always responds with a careful, balanced and considered response to any post on this board.
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Re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby pendragon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:34 pm

I'm so glad that a moderator has intervened on this thread.

To put this in perspective: I was diagnosed as dyspraxia aged 10, and have struggled forming relationships of any kind throughout my life, not just romantic ones. Fortunately I have been with my current partner for nearly thirteen years. She is probably exasperated by my inability to do maths or remember where to put things, but she manages to keep a good sense of humour about it and always defends me if other people make unthinking comments.

Reading this thread, I can see I'm one of the lucky ones. Please bear in mind that if you enter "Dyspraxia relationships" in a search engine, this is the thread that comes up. Imagine how harmful and upsetting it would be if a single person came on here looking for support and advice, only to find partners of dyspraxics criticising and pathologising them. I was particularly disturbed by the poster who talked about "surviving" a relationship with a dyspraxic, as though he was some kind of monster, and directly attributing it to his disability. I would be devastated if I thought my partner was dissecting me like a case study.

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Re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby Ram » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:10 am

pendragon said:Please bear in mind that if you enter "Dyspraxia relationships" in a search engine, this is the thread that comes up. Imagine how harmful and upsetting it would be if a single person came on here looking for support and advice, only to find partners of dyspraxics criticising and pathologising them.


This is a really excellent point, pendragon. It would also be upsetting for a dyspraxic person facing relationship difficulties to read such stuff. These posts are of no benefit at all to the dyspraxic community.

It really is unfortunate that a thread which started as an individual looking for genuine advice descended into a venomous slagging off of dyspraxics (by some posters).

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Re: Your opinions please.

Postby Ram » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:20 am

Jim said: I think sometimes we have to pause for thought.

It's all too easy to feel instant offence.............Knowing our tendencies to sometimes take things literally.. we ourselves ought to pause for thought and be sure we understand what was meant and not simply was said.


I have thought carefully about what you have said. While of course I accept your right to an opinion, I have to respectfully disagree with most of your recent post. I (along with several others) have been bugged by several of the posts on the thread "Living with a Dyspraxic Man" for quite some time. There certainly wasn't any instant offence on my part at all!

I would also like to say that what is written tends to be taken literally (whether the reader is dyspraxic or not) since written language has no facial or tonal cues unlike spoken language. Hence, it is very much a matter of opinion what the writers' intention was on some of these posts. However, at face value they were anti-dyspraxia and offer no value to the members of this site. And the first consideration of this site should be to the dyspraxic users.



For the post which catalysed this conversation, I honestly don't think it was intended to belittle or offend anyone here. It was sharing a bad personal experience with someone who just so happened to be dyspraxic.


Possibly not. Nevertheless, since this website is for dyspraxic people, the burden of responsibility on the non-dyspraxic poster to write with an awareness that most of the readers here are dyspraxic. Hannah Jeremy and several other posters on that thread seemed unaware or didn't care that this is a website for dyspraxic people. Therefore, in my opinion, such posts are of no help at all to dyspraxic people and don't belong here. Whether or not the writer intended to offend is not of that much relevance whether the post should stay or go.


It could perhaps be written more delicately, so that the reader does not take it as a generalisation upon themselves.


That is something of an understatement, but i agree with your overall sentiment.

This is where Tom is good, for he always responds with a careful, balanced and considered response to any post on this board.


I completely agree with you on this. And I should also add that Tom has at times valiantly tackled posters who have gotten out of hand.

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Re: Your opinions please.

Postby Tom fod » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:09 pm

Jim and Ram

Thank you both for your comments. Jim made some valid points about people being too quick to take offence and I believe that this is universally applicable. Ram's and Pendragon's points that some of the views expressed will upset are also valid and I freely admit I also experienced some feelings of self doubt as a result of that thread. I'm currently leaning more towards the idea of deleting it. So far I have resisted doing this since I believe we as a community are capable of responding constructively to counter such views and giving friends,family members, partners food for thought on how they interact with and understand us.
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Re: Your opinions please re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby Ram » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:36 pm

I'm currently leaning more towards the idea of deleting it. So far I have resisted doing this since I believe we as a community are capable of responding constructively to counter such views and giving friends,family members, partners food for thought on how they interact with and understand us.


Actually, I think the blue lettered moderator's warnings that you have written at the bottom of the more potentially offensive posts is a very good move. It avoids being overly censorious yet lets everyone know that such posts are being watched.

I have one suggestion on how to make this good idea of yours even better. Would it be easy to move your blue lettered warnings to the top of problematic posts? If you could do this, site users will know about such posts' potentially offensive nature before they actually read them.

What do you think?

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Re: Your opinions please re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby otis_b_flywheel » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:51 am

Jim wrote: This is where Tom is good, for he always responds with a careful, balanced and considered response to any post on this board,


Absolutely no argument Jim - Tom does a great job and isn't a moderator for nothing. But before that you write

Everyone is a individual with different skill levels in language and communicating irrespective of any disability.


Call me paranoid if you like, but it could be implied from the first quote that someone who is less capable of responding in such a careful, balanced and considered way should think twice before posting here or even not post at all. It is in the nature of dyspraxia that we are not always capable of so doing, yet I feel strongly that this forum is run by adult dyspraxics for adult dyspraxics, who should all feel safe and comfortable posting here. If we're going to be slagged off in it by non-dyspraxics then, to my mind, this forum is not serving its purpose.

Regards

Tim

P S apologies to everyone - I'm having a technophobe moment having not used quotes before - any advice gratefully received :-)
Last edited by Tom fod on Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your opinions please re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby Tom fod » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:38 pm

I'm sure Jim will respond but I do believe he meant that the population in general, not just us lot, can be rather unclear in their communication and as such it can be open to varied interpretation.

You could say that perhaps the original poster had rather forgotten who the audience was when recounting her personal tale of woe on this forum and was not intentionally out to cause offence to us.
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Re: Your opinions please re: In a relationship with a man with dyspraxia.

Postby Jim » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:06 pm

Absolutely Tom.

I think we need to be careful before we put the onus on any particular individual or group to accommodate or tolerate others.

There are in excess of 7 Billion people on earth all whom feel and think differently. The diversity is enormus and it's impossible for everyone to understand everyone else.

Nobody can help how they feel, yet most of us can help how we behave.

I may well be in a minority here, but I chose not to be offended at this thread. There's little use in dwelling upon opinions of people who probably don't take the time to comprehend a perspective which seems unnatural to them.

If there are people who find it difficult to tolerate some of our characteristics then let it be their, problem not ours. I sincerely doubt anyone here goes out of their way to annoy people with dyspraxic tendencies after all.

I know some posts in this thread touched some nerves and I respect that, but few seem to consider that perhaps those people had some trauma or issues of their own which are no less valid than our ours.

Remember.. there's at least two sides to any argument. We should consider both, not merely our own.
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